BrentHeMan 2017-01-26 17:57:51

@RealFaction - yes, and I'm saying that FOR NOW, the workaround for not having this feature is to disable downloads.

TomFulp 2017-01-26 17:59:32

@RealFaction We've been looking at adding a specific "Allow in Geometry Dash" checkbox. The tricky part is that if GD is loading the music like a regular download, we have to shut down all downloading to block downloading in GD. However if GD updated to use a JSON call we set up for it a few months back, then we can use that to control access - waiting to hear if it is using that currently or not, otherwise it's something that could go into future updates.

TomFulp 2017-01-26 18:17:25

@RealFaction Am hoping to have bulk rights management that lets you update download / creative commons / hopefully GD for all songs in one swoop.

Krazyman50 2017-01-26 23:07:00

Hey, I just want to say that I'm sorry as I feel I've contributed a bit to this mess--While most of my interactions with artists whose tracks I've used from this site have been positive, I've seen that many of them have still been given an amount of unwanted attention from fans of me or the game, which I've expressed my discontentment for a good number of times, though there's not much I can do about it. I don't think I'll be signing the petition because I feel hope for a solution and that it can very well be worked out within time, and I feel it's a bit too much to straight up remove the game from app stores over this, though I do understand the concerns, as I've seen the disgusting amount of spam in the audio portal every time I've looked in the unscouted section, and it's really disheartening that this many people can't follow the simplest of instructions. It's also really upsetting to see good people such as Xtrullor and Hinkik getting so much attention and spam they don't really want from GD. Best of luck in getting things changed, to me it sucks to see so much hate, justified or not.

EtzerGD 2017-01-26 23:29:13

@Troisnyx Repeating what I said above, I agree with a lot of what you said, but you need to be careful with your wording. RobTop does not make adsense money off of the songs. While the songs are in and the game does make money I'd argue there are separate parts. No don't is it bad when the music is being used in the game when it is not allowed, but to say the game is making money solely due to Adsense, isn't true. The full version of the game has no ads. In fact, EnV, Bossfight, DJStriden, a couple others are partnered with Dream Crusher Media, so any monetized youtube video about Geometry Dash goes straight to their pockets. I'm not denying the problem at all, I just think the problem needs to be more informed.

S3rios 2017-01-27 13:04:54

Alright, so I know you're frustrated, and to be completely honest I'm frustrated as well. The GD community IS really bad, and uploading stolen songs isn't ok. However, your solution just creates a whole new problem. Stolen songs and constant hate are a HUGE problem, and I agree more systems need to be put in place in order to stop these kinds of things from happening. But removing the game? It's completely unnecessary. You claim that that GD users feel they're entitled to songs, but you ignore the part of the community that agrees with you. They despise the bad parts of the community as much as you do, because it makes them look bad. And really, that's what seems to have happened here. You saw one part of the community and then applied it to the ENTIRE community. You reacted unreasonably and decided to fight a bad situation by trying to create another bad situation. You ignored any other possible solutions to the problem that would've left more people happy.
Also, the idea that none of the newgrounds artists have flourished because of GD is just wrong. Many have grown from GD, and even embrace it. A great example of this is DexArson. After one of his songs exploded in GD, he almost immediatly changed all of his tags to be GD related. By removing GD, you'd be ignoring all the artists who DO like GD and use it to gain popularity. Despite your denial, they do exist.
To sum it up, I agree that this abuse can't continue, but your solution is unreasonable and unfair to not only GD players, but artists who embrace GD.

S3rios 2017-01-27 15:13:26

@cank I have been following the comments and did not get the impression that this was blown out of proportion just to get the attention of RobTop, but that does make sense. That does not however change the fact that everyone in the GD community was put into a box, and that also doesn't change the fact that many artists still like GD. It also seems that though RobTop was not responding to the general community, he WAS very responsive and cooperating with the higher staff as BrentHeMan has said. Still, your explanation does make sense and now that I think about it I can see why it was done.

EtzerGD 2017-01-27 17:39:21

@Troisnyx Definitely agree with all that you just said. Not condoning any of it, but I think it's unfair to propose the removal of Geometry Dash, off of these issues. GD was linked to NG with permission. No doubt has it gone out of hand and should be fixed, but note fixed, not removed. I'm definitely on your side here, I love Geometry Dash too but there are many flaws within it. I'm working on a big video on this subject (or have been for a while) and this post hopefully will expedite it

ForeverBound 2017-01-28 09:22:04

I feel pretty shocked reading all the comments and hate here. I however might not have been that active to really notice how things entirely go within the community. I heared pretty bad things and I can understand there's a lot of anger. However I think it's better to work together on a solution then to harden ourselfs against eachother.

Yes audio theft happends, yes bad ratings and scores happends but didn't this happend before aswell? It's how the system works here (the ratings I can still remember the zero bombing just so you can get higher in the ranks) and it's also why we have moderators ( people always tried to steal our music or upload copyrighted songs)? Sure it's a lot more now because we have more traffic and a younger audience thats true but that doesn't mean it's all bad!

Removing the game is no option as it's too big besides that it's society that's getting more rotten and you notice that more in this game as it has a lot of young players.

I think we should have a joined solution with multiple little steps to realize it and know that something like this isn't solved instantly without making really drastic and big decisions which could be very bad for both parties!

I agree that it takes a long time to find a solution for this aswell as 3 years is long, however in that 3 years steps have been made to improve. Those unfortunatly haven't had the impact we would have hoped so far. Let's all think together how we can solve it in peace!

Chris354 2017-01-28 10:44:27

@ForeverBound Yes, your point is valid, though the problem has exponentially increased with the release of Geometry Dash. @EDM364 in previous replies has said that on some days he's removing 2000 songs or more on some days, and that there are around 3 to 4 other mods give or take a few, but assuming there's 5 total we're looking at a removal rate of 10000 songs a day sometimes. Also, the issues you mention yes were here before Geometry dash before hand, but has exponentially increased due to Geometry dash. If we are talking 10000 songs a day being removed sometimes, and legitimately before Geometry dash including the ones that had to be removed for some reason or another (@TomFulp , @EDM364 , @Troisynx , @RealFaction , @Mich , @Step , @NekoMika , and anyone else that has been here for more than seven years, go ahead and give real statistics and correct the ones I have in the event I am mistaken), but we are looking at probably currently more songs being removed than passing. Before Geometry Dash, I can assume that there were probably 700 songs uploaded per day at most, however, since Geometry Dash came online we're starting to look at an average of around 7000 a day with nearly all of it (possibly as much as 80% of the stuff uploaded now over copyright issues alone) having to be removed being over less members, whereas those 700 songs before Geometry Dash were over a larger number of people and maybe 30 had to be removed per day for any reason. Again, I am not 100% certain of this, and using this more to put it into perspective, so please come out with some real statistics here so that there is a better idea of what is going on here. Before Geometry Dash, Zero - bombing was not as prevalent, and although it hasn't quite seen the likes of 2008, it has become much more commonplace since Geometry Dash came out. I will not be quite surprised should zero bombing now actually become a larger issue than in 2008 since you could not vote more than once, and thus multiple account zero - bombing become commonplace with these Geometry Dash people also get sneakier with multiple accounts, &c., though these toxic and vile problems will continue to increase exponentially until we fully repair the broken windows that were caused by Geometry Dash. If we are even hit with a DMCA, because there would be a discovery period (in which these types of statistics HAVE to be made known and revealed), communication is going to be key to see if we are trying to keep it off and are overrun or if we've not been faithful in that regard. I'm also not sure of the turnover rate of moderators here, and it could especially be necessary should it come down to a DMCA if we had to increase our moderators since Geometry Dash came online, an increase in moderators and high turnover rates would probably suggest overrun which would look bad, however, when it's proven that we were overrun, it would at least give us a leg to stand on, which, is better than having no standing at all.

Also, on the note of a DMCA, if we can prove that Geometry Dash has been violating our terms of service (and many people's licenses on their songs as a result), they technically can be held liable to such a hit as well. Just because a solution is in the works does NOT mean that the solution that is desperately needed for relief here will come fast enough. Also, that lack of communication for this extreme length of time tells me that RobTop is hiding something from us, and possibly even engaging in a Ponzi scheme where we were the investors that fell into the benefactor's trap, causing us to loose what we have invested in for the benefactor's benefit.

If you guys are reading this and you don't know what a Ponzi scheme is, let me explain for you. A Ponzi scheme, named after Charles Ponzi who in 1920 used this scheme to get gain and was arrested on fraud charges when he was caught by authorities, is where the benefactor get's the investor's money, hands them a certificate later on that is false saying that they have gained money over a specific period of time, and then uses that money for his own benefit. Ponzi schemes are also very unstable, and as a result don't have that long of a life span, though the same scheme can be used on the same people multiple times to keep it afloat, and thus those investors that pay into the scheme multiple times will loose even more money in the long term. These schemes are similar to pyramid schemes, though different in which a pyramid scheme requires exponential grown where the minimum requires and exponential growth of a minimum of base 2 for EVERYONE in the scheme or else the pyramid collapses. Ponzi schemes when they become unstable will usually collapse either the benefactor disappearing taking the money with him, the benefactor is hit with investment removal rushes akin to a bank run, or external forces go in and remove the scheme through natural means. Both Pyramid and Ponzi schemes are fraudulent and thus are not either nor are legal.

Sorry I needed to make such a large comment, however, I think it's important that this gets out.

LesNic 2017-01-29 00:24:40

i only want to remove GD...
when gd people knew i wanted to remove it, they sended mehate at my skype :/

Stardust-Nation 2017-01-29 19:16:22

I thought about it just now, and I think there is something that could be done. I'm no expert, and I'm sure this idea isn't foolproof, but I think it would be cool if Robtop were to provide revenue for artists when their songs are used, kinda similar to how celebrities will sign up to promote a product and receive money every time the promotion is shown, or kinda like the ad revenue service for YouTube. I think it would be fairly simple to execute once a system is in place. That being said, Robtop is NOT a responsive developer. He occasionally enters streams every couple weeks, answers three or four questions, then disappears and the process repeats. I don't think he's necessarily avoiding this issue. I just think it's not yet in his radar. I think it would be a lot better if he were to simply interact with the fans, artists, and critics more. It does seem irresponsible that he's simply letting people use all this Newgrounds content without some sort of contact with the artists who make the content. I understand fair use, but it is ridiculous that he isn't at LEAST in coordination with the Audio Portal's admins and mods. I'm still not signing this petition, though, because I still don't agree with the premise that the app should be removed. With the right tweaking, it could actually be really helpful in promoting artists (without swamping them) and getting new people involved in music making (like me for instance, as I previously articulated). So, yeah. There needs to be a pretty major change here, but it shouldn't be taken too far.

AnthonyRiley 2017-01-30 13:45:56

While I'm A Big GD Fan Myself, I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE COMMUNITY.
Its Just Filled Up With Overused Things Such As Joke Levels, Lennies, Kappas, Etc.
And I Didn't Know That RobTop (Aka GreedyTop) Was Getting Money Of NG Music.
And Oh God The GD Community's Comedy Is The Worst, ESPECIALLY WITH THE BACK ON TRACK JOKE. Also Some GD People STEAL Songs Then Put Them On NG Just So They Can Use It In GD. And Back In 1.9 The GD Community Was WAY Less Toxic And Cancerous. I Hope That The Community Can Be Like That Again.
-AnthonyRiley

ADR3-N 2017-01-30 15:50:51

@RealFaction, really? Wow. I didn't expect such swift action. Well, the fact the Steam admins see just to remove it because of all the theft and infringement on our CC licenses, good riddance until the game is fixed up proper and legal. I may cover this in my next update.

tf2giantman 2017-01-30 16:05:10

I know how bad the GD community is really I do, but removing GD from the stores is only gonna make everything worse and it makes you have a bad rep for it

TDChRiS 2017-01-30 16:18:50

Guys, I understand your pain. Id be annoyed too. but going as far as to delete the game?! Ive been playing since 2013, and I give song artists proper credits in every level I make. I too, hate how young and immature plebs put in skrillex and mlg. You guys have just ruined an entire community, one where people joined together with joy. One where people created art. One where people get creative. One where friends are made. But most of all, a community that ive adored for ages. Just know that, that youve ruined an entire community. Hope youre happy...
-Chris

Stupidadi 2017-01-30 16:22:11

this brought my iq from 119 to 52. so, because of about 1000 prepubescent kids who do some bad shit, you think its right to remove an entire game with millions of downloads off of steam? if maybe you had an iq over room temperature, you would come up with a solution that doesnt only benefit you. but because you think your website is the greatest thing ever made (which it obviously isnt) you decide that you should destroy something that did a few bad things to your site. xtrullor himself even said "fuck your gd" and you say that the community disrespects ng artists. pathetic. i cant possibly believe that you think you'll make a difference. why am i saying this?https://steamdb.info/app/322170/history/ check it out. you can still get gd. anyways, you're mad that we use ng's songs in gd, even though this site provides a FREE DOWNLOAD. anyways, i should shut up since after reading the first three sentences you'll decide to remove my comment because i have a different opinion than you. good day

LuigiFanMario 2017-01-30 16:26:06

Sure, the GD community is bad but you don't have to remove someone's life work from steam just because you're unhappy with one aspect of the game. That's fucking petty.

Anyway, mass flagging a game doesn't show that you are any better than the thing you are trying to get rid of. If you're trying to prove the cancer of the GD community, don't stoop to their level, duh.

connieoop 2017-01-30 16:28:15

Hey, I'm a GD player. Taking down Geometry Dash won't help with the issue, the players will still have the app/program and will still use Newgrounds. If newgrounds breaks the contract with RobTop, millions, maybe even billions, of levels will be worthless. Taking down GD will just cause even more issues. The game isn't the problem, it's the players that do this. I sincerely hope that you look from a different point of view, such as a creator's perspective. I've been working on multiple levels using songs from NG, and if I can't use the songs, *my* hard work will be for nothing, just gone. You're saying that we're throwing away the musicians' work, but going through with this will cause months, years even, of hard work on levels.

SGMC 2017-01-30 16:31:51

This is one of the most atrociously biased things I've ever taken part in in my life. And before you brush this comment off like it's one of the surprisingly small number of hateful, inflammatory comments on this thread towards you and the supporters of this petition, let me explain why I say that.

- They treat off-brand and new artists on Newgrounds like shit.
This argument's primary flaw is one that I feel prevails throughout your entire post. //The fact that some geometry dash players insult new and off-brand artists on newgrounds poorly has nothing to do with geometry dash as a game.// Some people are hateful, annoying people who don't understand music and yet love sticking their head in it. This has absolutely nothing to do with geometry dash as a game, nor is it a valid reason for why it should be removed from the app store. Having harassing members of a community is not a valid reason for a game to be removed. I would also like to add that some, if not many, geometry dash players (for example Etzer) help and support new artists, and that some, if not many, premier newground artists (for example Djjanner) work in collaboration with aspiring musicians from the GD community.

- They harrass well-established musicians on Newgrounds, like @Waterflame, @Xtrullor and @ThisIsTheFatRat, pressing them to enable download on ALL their songs or make them available for use on Geometry Dash.
Though I am not a very active newgrounds member, I personally have seen MUCH more support and adoration from geometry dash fans than hate or pressure to release music towards artists here. The one and only exception to this of which I know is Xtrullor who I believe should not play a part in this argument as his decision was his alone and is not representative of newgrounds as a whole nor is his fan's reactions representative of GD as a whole. Even so, the majority of the replies to Xtrullor's post announcing the removal of his music are supportive.

- They don't treat music as an art form, but instead treat it like some sort of commodity.
I don't want this to come off as insulting, but music is in some ways akin to a commodity. "Commodity" is a rather excessive term, but still, I doubt that a massive majority of people outside of musicians constantly treat music (especially music such as the type that is prevalent in GD- electronic music created specifically to be shared online) as an art form. On top of this, much of the music that is used in GD is specifically labeled as freely usable.

- They flood the Audio Portal with Skrillex, MLG, Five Nights at Freddy's, and a whole host of songs made by others which they do not have rights to.
Perhaps, then, newgrounds should change its upload policy. This is a rather good argument on your part and there's not much I can do to deny it; I acknowledge that. However, it's important to keep in mind that an INCREDIBLY small number of GD players relative to the total number of players actually do this and figure out ways to get unjustly uploaded music scouted and usable in-game.

- They impersonate well-established artists on Newgrounds and outside, just so that they could have their songs played in Geometry Dash. @Rukkus suffered the same treatment recently, with a user pretending to be him going by the name of @sukkur. We've also had people impersonating Pegboard Nerds, @OfficialPandaEyes, @ThisIsTheFatRat (which prompted him to make a page here on this site), Xtrullor, and even J- and K-pop artists.
My response to this is basically the same as the above point. You've given about 10 responses, and being generous, let's say that this has actually been a legitimate issue 100 times. This is 100 instances out of ~500,000,000 geometry dash users, or ~5-10mil if you're only counting the full version of the game.

- Once banned, they revenge flag users' legitimate songs (yes!), but of course we moderators can see that what they're doing is a whole load of rubbish and that gets undone very quickly.
They fire off abusive comments on people's songs, and passive-agressive messges on people's inboxes. The relevant artists and moderators take the brunt of it, of course.
Again. Very very very few people do this, and this is an issue with specific individuals rather than the game. People being rude to musicians is not a valid reason for the game that introduced them to the musicians to be taken down.

Overall, what I'm trying to say is that while all of your complaints are indeed complaints, none of them are sufficient reason for Geometry Dash to be taken down from Android, Apple, Steam, Amazon, or anything else. Originally, I was going to let this all blow over, but the fact that many of you collectively reported GD on steam and presumably actually got it taken down was more than enough to convince me to write this. That was an abusive, unjustified, rash decision, and it not only caused a TON of annoyance, hardship, and chaos in the GD community but also but all of newgrounds in a horrible light in the eyes of hundreds of thousands, if not //millions// of GD players.