I've signed it, it proves I support this and that I hate fakers
Composer, percussionist, artist, self-backing choir.
Half of Two Meeps
Third of Rakoczy
Quarter of Those Fucking Snowflakes
For commission or session work inquiries, HMU at mail@troisnyx.co.uk
Annette Walker
@Troisnyx
Age 33, she/they
Choir Director
Lancashire, UK
Joined on 6/26/11
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I would rather see Geometry Dash removed completely than to have Newgrounds face an unprecedented wall of litigation. While the real problem is user abuse, the game allows for unrestricted access and all but promotes illegal behavior in order to gain access to tracks that are otherwise unusable. Obviously, not every single GD user out there is illegally stealing music, but it has certainly become the rule rather than the exception, and it needs to end.
Hey, if Newgrounds goes under due to lawsuits from the music industry, that's the end of Geometry Dash once and for all. At this point the game itself could be removed, restructured in a way that disallows theft, repackaged and brought back to light.
I never played the game. I lack a mobile device that can, and I certainly have no interest in paying 3.99 on Steam for something I'm going to hate anyhow. Still, I was wondering whether or not Mr. Fulp could simply refuse to allow GD to use songs from the site. That, and having nothing particularly interesting to comment on Change.org are the only reasons I haven't signed it yet. I'd rather have all the information before posting something on a matter I know little to nothing about with capital letters and cuss words. Ultimately, however, if it's going to be simple to continue stealing music, regardless of having Mr. Fulp's and the artists' permissions, then, yeah, it's a no-brainer that the game needs to be removed from all three (if not more) platforms.
@RealFaction has exhorted us to flag the game on Steam. Please do so -- I just did!
Change.org does not have Steam registered on its database as a recipient so I'm not quite sure how to address that, but we at least have a flagging mechanism.
@larrynachos, I used to be more indifferent toward the game and tell myself that it wasn't RobTop's fault users were going off the rails, but like Troisnyx has said, he's not been forthcoming at all, hardly ever updates, and is also making money off of every little thing GD players do on the game, as well as every single artist whose music is taken advantage of. None of this money ever sees the artists' hands, and it doesn't look like anything will change. RobTop is known for his sluggish updates and abandoned projects.
I would settle for a rollback before custom songs were made available or a very clearcut disclaimer and statement to these idiots in both versions of the app that they are to use the music already on NG, not submit songs they didn't create, songs that are already here, or songs that were deleted or they couldn't download. None of this has been explained and it's inviting a bunch of unwanted morons in for tea, whereby they flip the tray, cuss out your girlfriend, then start switching personalities like something out of The Exorcist and take a massive steaming shit on the carpet. But apparently it's your fault for not thinking that's cool. That's what this is like.
@AlienAlan Change.org does this to ascertain location, but it doesn't appear to go anywhere but the recipients of the petition (Google, Apple) according to what @Mich read. Correct me if I'm wrong. If you have a gmail or apple store login, chances are you've already given them your address anyway.
@TomFulp, how could we block downloads specifically for GD? From my understanding the phone has to have a local copy of the mp3 -- not that some special server is an intermediary. If we had to disable downloads, that'll hamper a lot of users who exclusively use NG to share their content with fans. Although it would net more traffic and playlist usage much like music on YT does, I'd have to start using something like instaud.io to give my fans a DL link. This runs us back to the issue of Rob hardly ever updating, since users would still be stealing shit, thinking the game had custom songs, after we'd disabled all their downloads. Maybe a big, unmissable banner with that GD graphic "Until Geometry Dash is updated to no longer use custom songs from our Portal, downloads are disabled. The theft, harassment, abuse, and entitlement inherent in the GD community is unacceptable, leading many of our artists to take this step for themselves", and so on.
Honestly though, do we really think these banners are going to do any good? If anything, after we put up our own banner, the thefts increased, thieves got more defiant, not to mention sneaky... I feel like we're beating a dead horse and the whole concept of Geometry Dash and how the custom music has been treated for so long (thefts started the moment Rob announced custom songs) fosters the idea that songs are consumables, commodities, toys -- not art. Kids want to get YT famous making a level to @Xtrullor or Skrillex, or whoever else is in fashion to like and screencap levels to. GD has never been about supporting artists. It's been about USING them, and the more I see, the more I'm convinced we'd all be better off if it never existed.
If requiring users to become supporters to be able to get scouted would solve the problem, though, I'm at the point I'd be happy with any kind of progress -- just to see something done.
Honestly, even if we were to require people to become supporters before they can be scouted, the issue is lies in the unscouted realm, which of has to be cleaned out the most. Sooner or later, we are going to be hit with a DMCA, and, even if the app is removed from the stores, it will simply bottleneck the problem, won't solve it. If anything, even if we are hit due to the sheer volume of the issue (anyone got any statistics they want to share as to the unscouted people since 2013 of how many songs had to be taken down (excluding removal by uploader) vs. how many people got scouted?), and, with each attempt becoming more sneakier (and including impersonation), there's only so much time before something hits us. And, in all fairness, could the GD creator get hit with it faster than us if we can provide those types of statistics?
Trouble is, for something like this to even work, a court action NEEDS to be brought against him. Threatening legal action will not work, because he's fucking obstinate. The only way he can be hit with it is if someone spends the money, brings him to court, and if he does not respond, for the judge to rule by default against RobTop (in a sort of class action case).
But because the songs are being hosted on Newgrounds, the record companies will go for US first, not RobTop. RobTop is the one pulling the strings behind Geometry Dash, but his role is only minimal on this site. Everyone will see what's on the surface, and us hosting these songs (which us mods are painstakingly trying to take down quickly) will be taken for, you know, being complicit in the whole copyright infringement thing.
Musicians should sue robtop for top robbery
Does that make us top-LESS? Har har!
signed
Signed it ! mdr^^
While I don't think it'll get removed from any of these stores, I signed to show some support for this issue. I really love the Audio Portal and it would be a shame if Tom has to shut it down because of GD users. Robtop needs to do something about his game's community.
Well, flagging, petitioning and speaking out are some of the ways. I'm not sure how well the flagging system works on the Play Store but we can definitely do so for Steam, actually.
Speaking of which, @RealFaction have you had any experience flagging things on the Play Store?
Well, might as well sign this. I've been getting tired of this. I may not be a victim of this, but I've heard the stories.
Thanks for your support! If you can, flag the app on Steam, and the Play Store / iTunes too; it'd be much appreciated. I'mma do the same.
@cank And DAAAAMMMNN it feels good to be listed in the same repost list as Waterflame
Hey. I am a creator in the Newgrounds Audio Portal. I am not one of those popular creators but I know what you're thinking. Instead of just sign a petition to obliterate Geometry Dash itself, how about we sign a petition for RobTop Games to remove the feature of having songs on Newgrounds used in the game. I don't want a good game like this to just go to waste.
#RIPSoundCloud
The idea is for someone to actually *respond* to the petition. The only problem with this is that RobTop has been unresponsive, literally, for the LAST THREE YEARS.
Alrighty. Signed the petition, flagged on Steam, and, since I don't currently see them tagged here (I could be wrong), I'm hoping to summon the musical talents of @KSika @TeraVex @Keypat @hyperdemented and @officialnitroedm for their support, because their music is kickassingly wonderful, and I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see the GD community also taking advantage of them in the near future (if they haven't already).
I'd say that some better care from Robtop should be had. Robtop clearly wanted unrecognized artists to get attention, but then this happened. I haven't seen much, but I think there's a better solution.
I agree; I doubt any of us wanted it to get to this point -- but being unresponsive except solely for bug fixes, like what @NekoMika has observed of his Steam communications, isn't really the answer.
I'm not involved in site business much any more, but I was involved with GD since the day it was released so I thought I'd comment here.
Maybe it's our fault for not being as communicative as possible here. I feel like this is something we've all discussed a lot in chat and on the forums though.
Rob has worked with the AP and with us since day one. He asked the AP and us personally if it would be OK to use the AP's music in GD. He's been working with us ever since to address any unintended issues we've had which, yes, have been VERY frustrating to deal with at times.
I don't know why he hasn't personally responded to you. Just know that he's been working with us this whole time.
We've already done a ton of stuff over the years to address these issues:
If an artist doesn't want their game featured in GD or anywhere else, they can disable downloads.
Unscouted users music CAN'T be downloaded and therefore can't be used in GD. Again, this was added years ago. We added this years ago to address stolen music from automatically being available in GD.
We've also added banners, disclaimers, and various other things too. Rob has a list of changes he's going to make but these things take time. Rest assured, we are all working on this.
In light of all this, I think posting this publicly and creating a petition was an extremely unfair and unprofessional thing to do to the site, to the AP users who have enjoyed being featured in GD, to the new artists and users GD users have brought to the site, and *especially* to Rob who, again, has bent over backwards to work with us since day one. He doesn't deserve to have his game removed from the stores and to have his livelihood affected because of this (which is highly doubtful would ever happen anyway).
I would have gladly told you all this if you had posted this in the AP mod forum, which is probably where this should have been posted to begin with.
This is a volunteer position and while we really appreciate the help, nobody is expected to burn themselves out doing it. I've said this to many of you: if you're burnt out, take a step back. Tom said he added a couple new audio mods to help as well.
If you have any other ideas or discussion on this, feel free to take this discussion to where it belongs: the AP mod forum. I also think you should really take that petition down.
I accept the consequences, as a moderator, for bringing up something which has irked us mods for long enough. Apart from Step, practically every other mod has agreed with me on this one -- I do not say this to cause separation or schism, far from it. What I am saying, however, is that this is something that has affected not just mods, but regulars as well, and a lot more transparency has been needed over it.
That we are getting this now, I am grateful -- but it took ALL THESE EVENTS to be set in motion before anything was said to us. Now what does that say? And I admit, changes happen in the pipeline and often can't be talked about, but at least hinting towards them would have been a far better move than to have them explode. No, in all seriousness, I am more than miffed. And let's not forget those people whose music is abused by the system. It's all fine and good to consider those who enjoy GD, but we have a number of people who are burnt out too.
For my part, I had threatened this for a long time now, and hardly anyone spoke against me about this. This was in the pipeline for months now, and someone could have warned me about it when newsposts were being suggested along those lines, or suggest that this was an unprofessional thing to do. Instead, even from my fellow mods, I got all the support in the world.
An apology is due to practically EVERY user who has been more than frustrated by this. Not just from me, but also from those who have kept silent for far too long.
Deal with me as you will.
I don't see why I should sign this petition. It's not the creator's fault that his fans are causing trouble, what did he do to deserve to be punished?
Not only that, but all petitions in the history of ever have always been a waste of time that accomplish nothing. You're gonna have as much success getting Steam to pull Geometry Dash as Invader Zim fans had in getting new episodes.
It's one thing when the creator intended good things; it's another thing altogether not doing enough damage control after being spoken to multiple times.
And better that we actually say something about it than not. If you think the best thing for us is to sit down and keep silent while that cancerous community abuses our songs, you're sorely mistaken. Even if it means we fail in the attempt, better to have spoken out than not.
"It's one thing when the creator intended good things; it's another thing altogether not doing enough damage control after being spoken to multiple times."
According to @BrenTheMan, RobTop has been more than accommodating. So who's lying to me, you or Bren?
This is getting blown way out of proportion. We've been working with Rob since day one on this, like I said. I've personally communicated this many times to many different mods and other users. We've been very open about everything we've done and plan on doing. Nothing is secret. There just isn't any reason for us to not be totally transparent here.
Yes this is frustrating for us all, but we are working on it and always have been. I'm sorry things aren't moving as fast as you expect them to, but the site has just two developers and afaik Rob is the only developer working on GD.
Next time you have a question about anything, feel free to bring it up on the mod forums where we can discuss it before it builds up to so much of a problem. You have before, which is why it's confusing why you felt the need to go this route vs. just opening up a thread on the mod forum.
Agreed, Bren. Once an amicable solution is reached, I will gladly void the petition. I just wish this was told to all of us earlier, and after thinking about what exactly to do... I'm going to let this mull over for the night, table some recommendations, post an update on the petition saying that if something good is coming up (which we hear in the pipeline it is), then I will void it, because the threat is averted.
@Psychopath, let me put this straight. @TomFulp in his earlier comments had little clue about what exactly to do, but made it clear that he didn't want the game to go down, that was an absolute last resort. If that doesn't convey to you the air of miscommunication and frustration that has been going on, then consider that @NekoMika, @Mich and myself had on repeated attempts contacted RobTop and failed. It's only *NOW* that this is all coming out.
Oy, I know proof is needed to know you're a legit voter for the petition. But I'm not sure how comfortable I am... giving out my name and address...
Oh I know. A few users already told me what their concerns were. Anyway, I posted an update to the newspost and the petition, which should hopefully clear the air about things if anyone hasn't been crawling the comment section recently.
TomFulp
I don't think GD should be removed from the app store... In a worst case scenario, NG could block access to the songs - I'm still holding onto hope that updates to in-game notices and disclaimers will help shift how the community behaves. A lot of it may be language barriers as well - I get the feeling English is a second language to a lot of the song thieves. It gets tempting to make some countries pay for supporter status before they can upload, since they mostly bring grief.