@EDM364 I see what you're saying. As I understand it, wasn't the compensation the attention people would get? I know it that didn't work as intended, and please correct me if I'm wrong. I guess in thinking it over more I can see why it would be considered illegal. I've thought about it quite a bit today and I can see your points. It can get a bit confusing when RobTop himself isn't using the songs or benefiting from them directly, but after thinking through different scenarios I can see what you mean. I'm glad we got our disagreements figured out.
Composer, percussionist, artist, self-backing choir.
Half of Two Meeps
Third of Rakoczy
Quarter of Those Fucking Snowflakes
For commission or session work inquiries, HMU at mail@troisnyx.co.uk
Annette Walker
@Troisnyx
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Lancashire, UK
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you are ignoring the facts that artists were being thrown under the bus because some dumb kids want a free track for their games. That it hurts people more than it help.
Of course, if it comes back, we'll make it disappear again. Let's the battle commence.
"wasn't the compensation the attention people would get?"
This is often what people who think Creative Commons = Fair Use (it doesn't, and isn't in the case of GD). Now, that *would* have been valid if the game was totally free, no ads or revenue earned. After 2.1 people started buying the game just to get certain songs, so even this reasoning sort of falls flat when you consider people aren't looking for new artists by and large. They're looking to hear the same old thing or what they found on YT. This is why people are constantly stealing songs, after all.
Artists like @Xtrullor and @SoundChris, as well as myself and others were "compensated" less with publicity and more with our inboxes, scores, and reviews being abused because of GD. I promise I'm not trying to be funny or petulant about the issue. If we had these changes earlier and the importance of the NG community were emphasized -- and users told to explore rather than just upload trash, maybe we could have gotten some good publicity off of it for artists. As is, people are just monetizing GD videos on YT against our music licenses and giving us shit when our songs are disabled.
"It can get a bit confusing when RobTop himself isn't using the songs or benefiting from them directly, but after thinking through different scenarios I can see what you mean. I'm glad we got our disagreements figured out."
From everyone else's perspective, it seems Rob is giving something to everyone and offering up a world of free music. To the musicians, he is selling our entire scouted/downloadable portal and not giving us or our benefactors (NG) a cent in return. We don't even get any traffic when someone makes a level. If you notice, the downloads of a track will be hundreds of thousands higher than the plays. This helps us none and is a lot of bandwidth. The game drives wedge between us and the audience that way too, and the users are treating every track like it's just here for GD, or some toy -- most, not all. Some appreciate NG for what it is, a place to share your creations.
@EDM364 I didn't say I don't agree with you. I also didn't say that the attention should be compensation. From what I heard about the agreement with Rob, it would be a means of compensation. I even said I know that it didn't work as intended. I'm not justifying it, I was just asking a question. The agreement as explained to me was as follows.
"The agreement was that people would ask permission before using them. The ID, the last few digits on the link, would be used as a means of sourcing the audio, and his purpose, to give NG artists some time in the spotlight, was made clear."
I never said that it should be the only form of compensation, nor did I say you don't deserve any compensation. I explained why I was confused earlier, and I said I agree with your points. I'm not trying to contradict you on this, please understand.
The only reason I made my original post was to suggest that a few people apologize, as I think it would help both the Newgrounds community and the Geometry Dash community come to terms, as Troisnyx suggested. I'm sorry for what I may have said to start this up.
@SnowTeddy I am not ignoring facts, and I don't know where you're basing your assumptions.
Also, you're so angry at the Geometry Dash community, yet I have no doubt you'd be one of the people that acts in a similar fashion to the angry children that were harassing Troisnyx earlier. Stop trying to start something that doesn't need to be started. I haven't said anything to try and degrade or hinder either community. I'm not ignoring facts nor am I throwing people under the bus.
Again, I'm sorry for acting spontaneously. After thinking about it for a while, I no longer agree with some of the points I made yesterday. I'm dealing with a lot, especially with this being one of the hardest quarters of school, drumline constantly eating up my time and energy, and having to keep members of the Geometry Dash community from doing things they'll regret or things that'll make them look even worse than they do now. I'm using my time, which I could be using to do things I want to do, to try and get both of these communities to see eye to eye. I promise, as hard as I've been working here, I've been working a lot harder trying to get members of the Geometry Dash community to forgive what has been done.
Any messages from here on out should be continued in PMs. I don't want to flood this post with personal affairs any more than I already have.
@Kyron20 Dw, I wasn't assuming you believed that, just explaining for anyone who may read down this far. I've never been angry or agitated this entire time, just pretty much chilling. I feel like I may have come off harsher than I thought. Then again I have a very flat affect.
The agreement you mention, yeah, I think we can both see that that was never really adhered to at all. We never had a say in our stuff going in GD unless people were leaving useless reviews "can I use this for GD?" and tons of people didn't understand the same song could be used more than once so they uploaded other copies or asked thousands of times.
Are you happy!?
Topala made a new custom song system, and now leave us dashers alone...
Only time will tell.
Wow fuck people who think the musicians here on NG owe them anything really. I'm sorry but music is an integral part of almost anything you want to make be it a youtube video or animation here or a game etc. I myself have asked for permission from some of the guys to use their music in my youtube videos even though I don't monetize it and I also always give credit and link back in the videos to help support them. I don't play GD or make music but treating creative people with respect should be a given. I find it almost strange how one game could attract that many scummy people at one time.
Treating people right goes a long long ways. None of the guys I asked for permission that got back to me had any problems letting me use the music and all of them thanked me for asking first. It's not that fucking hard to take 5 seconds of time to just ask....
@Corpsecrank, thank you. Sums up my thoughts exactly -- "scummy people".
Well spoken on the eternal awesomness of NG! And popularity, and copyright issues... it's crazy even that Numa Numa meme mentioned above is gone though, and lives on via YT even though it was here first.
A bit ironic how the crackdown on unsolicited GD audio in favor of artist rights here is in so stark contrast to the unfavorable crackdown by record labels on work by animators here, who have been infringing external artist's audio in their own regard. So many collabs, and classics - even the first animation ever submitted, all have/had infringing audio. And even more ironic: much of the reason all this was cracked down upon possibly a result of GD's wave of stolen submissions. Though I respect audio artists should have a right to choose how their work is used, at the same time I wish the record labels wouldn't care so much if any of our animated work might infringe upon artists in their roster. I don't see an unofficial music video hurting the original artist in any way - on the contrary, I see it helping them garner an even bigger fanbase, and promote their work, though I've seen plenty of GD users use that same argument for their own cause. Even though it's a clear violation of rights, and there's no gray area at all there when it comes to commercial licenses and revenue, it feels wrong for record labels to crack down on ancient animated NG content for something so trivial as a copyright conflict. It opens up to new perspectives a bit... in a way it's like karma's coming back around.
As for the 'RobTop spent a year or so on his game and you musicians only spent 2-3 weeks on your pieces', you could also say musicians spend an equal amount of time on their music. A full game can't compare to a single track of course, but all good artists keep practicing, and innovating and putting out new work - while a developer keeps polishing his skill, and improving the product. Who's actually spent the most time on their craft is anyone's best guess. And indeed, the game wouldn't be much without the music.
Anyway: well-written post, debunking myths and opening up that overview. Air still seems a bit hazy, smoke drifting scarce as in the air after a fierce New Year square. Hope it clears out soon.
Wait... some people think that Waterflame is only popular because of Geometry dash???!!!!
Yes, I kid you not. You and I both know that he had quite the following way before Geometry Dash even came into existence.
Kyron20
@SnowTeddy I don't know what you're getting at, but to me it seems like you're the "salty" one. What did I say that made you think I was salty? All I did was share my beliefs with the moderators. Am I not allowed to do so?
As I've said, I am not a part of the Geometry Dash community. I don't want to be, and I'm not on their side. I was suggesting that certain people apologize if they want to get on better terms with the Geometry Dash community, as that's what part of this post was about. I'm not complaining about the new music rules, and no, the keyword isn't "famous." He said all previously approved artists, which I assume means artists that have had their songs used in the game before.
Like it or not, Geometry Dash will be back on stores, and no, Troisnyx's petition didn't fix the problem. It was a good effort, albeit extreme, but the problem was already being solved, so the petition didn't do much to help.
As of right now, there are (hopefully) no hard feelings between me and the moderators. We expressed our opinions and worked out our disagreements. I don't know why you felt the need to join in on this, but I can tell you you're not making it any better.