I may not have experience, but I have had similar scenarios play out for me like this to walk over me and dismiss me after I put alotbof hard work in for days for it to be thrown away ;-; I relate man.
Composer, percussionist, artist, self-backing choir.
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Annette Walker
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Age 33, she/they
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Lancashire, UK
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Comments
I can see your frustration with animators, but you are basically rallying up people because you've had problems.
I am an animator myself, not much experience except for working on my own projects that are not yet finished, and I know different voice actors, artists, musicians that I would want to be a part of my works, and I would pay them fairly.
But in your eyes, I am a moneygrabbing producer asking people for their money or taking their money because my work "is worth more". You are almost saying communism is the way to go with "Just because you spend the longest time on your craft, doesn't make our craft any less worthy of payment, recognition or acknowledgment than yours".
All art is evenly precious when we look athe the different sorts of art like on this site, but instead of asking for collaboration, you are saying animators should be frowned upon because we're all monsters.
I am someone who doesn't care that much for money, yes I wish to earn money from animation, but when I collab with someone I will pay them fairly. You could easily say these are just words without proof, but I know what I'm saying.
Animation does take a long time, especially for independant animators. Because when an animation is just the slightest bit off, we are extremely frowned upon by the rest.
We spend days and days on making something look nice and smooth, doing more than just animating it. One simple arm movement can give us an idea of a character, it takes a lot of time to give all different traits to the movement of a character.
Am I saying that therefore musicians, artists, and voice actors are worthless now that you are saying this and I am "butthurt"?
No, because again I know voice actors, artists, and musicians who I respect very much. And I myself am even a voice actor and an artists. I have a lot of interest in music, but haven't developed any musical talents. But again, I do respect musicians, as all these different things play into animation.
Instead of thinking one craft is better than the other, or one craft doesn't deserve to be so critical towards another, we should just work together and not target a group of people.
If you do put a lot of effort into someone else's work for a collaboration or what not, and they dismiss you in the end, than there could be reasons why.
Just like there are these animators you speak of, there are also artists, voice actors, and musicians.
And instead of being mad about your work not being used for something after you've put a lot of work in it, understand it and maybe ponder if you were the one that did something wrong.
There are also a lot of animators who put a lot of work in their work for a collab, to then also get dismissed or not paid while working days on end on something.
Harry Partridge is an example, but has he turned into such a bad guy? No, because he is an animator, an artist, a voice actor, and a musician.
Maybe I might've taken your point too far or out of contect, but the least I could do is write this message.
I think for once, people should actually take responsibility because us musicians actually try, and get abandoned for no apparent reason.
Since this post I've had five other people -- one here, four on Discord, share similar problems with me. And they are more than competent musicians who were promised that THEY would be the ones the animators would work with, or they were targeted because they were somehow musicians and their job was apparently no more than pushing a couple buttons, which is inherently false.
I AGREE with you that all art is evenly precious. And I am glad you came forward, and said the things you said. But quite frankly, I wish more people would actually come out and SAY these things. Because quite frankly, as it stands, most others tend to treat us musicians like shit. The only good examples I can think of, are, like you said, Harry Partridge and Jonathan Wrathbone (but the latter has left Newgrounds).
Listen to the stuff I make. Ask if I've done anything wrong with the quality of music I produce. Now ask yourself, why would I be spat upon five times on Newgrounds for being just an "idea guy" who apparently just makes music and therefore needs to pay up because I'm just an "idea guy"? And then ask yourself, why are several musicians, writers, VAs going through the same thing? Why this elitism? Why all these threads pissing on so-called "idea guys" who actually want to give of themselves?
EDIT: And just to prove how endemic this problem is, here's a more recent thread that is still featured on the Animation forum because of how much flak someone got for being upfront and honest about his finances.
http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1421247/1
This goes for every creator, not just animators. You might have had a bad situation with a handful of animators, but lets be real here, they arent the only ones who do this. and I have loads of animations, game design documents, character models and 3d models from cancelled games, collabs and cartoons to prove it.. Open your eyes and let in the light for the bigger picture. Everyone gets screwed from time to time, and if you cant get someone in on a labor of love project, you move on and hope another is willing. You cant get mad , or really hold a grudge because someone has decided they are done offering work up for free. Its great that you offer your skills for bigger projects, but that's your decision, and you cant fault others for not being the same way with their time..
It's one thing to have a grudge, MindChamber. It's another thing when you've been stung multiple times, when others have spoken of being similarly stung, and when you have an insular forum which seems to perpetrate the attitude which I speak of above.
And I agree with the attitude you speak of -- this is what I hope for, I find the things I have a love for, and it's gotten harder. They always say 'once stung, twice wary' -- so what happens if you multiply that by five? I have trust issues, which shouldn't be there, granted, but they are.
i just read that post and that guy was a troll and wasn't even an animator, unfortunately newgrounds is full of them, and its an old edgy attitude that still permeates from the days of long ago.. But for every person that's gotten stung on a collab project, I could probably link you to 5 successful ones.
Even people who HAVE gotten paid for their work have bailed on projects. Its more of the case of the person and less of animators in general. Dont let this dissuade you from collabing. Infact, use the collab function
http://www.newgrounds.com/collab
to get in contact with like minded people.
Sometimes, or at least in my case, most projects I Collab'd on have been works with people whos content I enjoy or have been inspired by.
your music is great.. just keep pumping out great stuff and other will be inspired and gravitate towards your work!
Good luck
Thank you! And apologies for what seems like apparent hostility; I realise that on my post. I was getting so worn out. :( You are a star, seriously.
no biggie, we all hit that same wall, we all understand the frustration, just keep doing what you love!
I'm not against animators wanting to get paid. Animation is hard work, don't get me wrong. At the same time though, I believe animators should be thinking more like producers. There is potential for a large group working together on a project. One of my favorite movies here on Newgrounds that does just that is Redhand.
EnigmaNote
Amen.