Entry #231

Down with Geometry Dash!! -- a petition and accompanying scenario

2017-01-25 05:19:01 by Troisnyx

Do you folks ever remember a time when Geometry Dash really made NG musicians flourish? No, I don't either.

I know I haven't been posting much due to my state of mind and my circumstances, which have made me worse for wear. But now that I am putting up a frontpage post for this, I think it's time to address something that has been eating away at NG for three years now.

We moderators and regulars of the audio portal have had to deal with this... cancer, there is no other way to put it... since Geometry Dash's release. You know the drill, what the vast majority of these users do:

  • They treat off-brand and new artists on Newgrounds like shit.
  • They harrass well-established musicians on Newgrounds, like @Waterflame, @Xtrullor and @ThisIsTheFatRat, pressing them to enable download on ALL their songs or make them available for use on Geometry Dash.
  • They don't treat music as an art form, but instead treat it like some sort of commodity.
  • They flood the Audio Portal with Skrillex, MLG, Five Nights at Freddy's, and a whole host of songs made by others which they do not have rights to.
  • They impersonate well-established artists on Newgrounds and outside, just so that they could have their songs played in Geometry Dash. @Rukkus suffered the same treatment recently, with a user pretending to be him going by the name of @sukkur. We've also had people impersonating Pegboard Nerds, @OfficialPandaEyes, @ThisIsTheFatRat (which prompted him to make a page here on this site), Xtrullor, and even J- and K-pop artists.
  • Once banned, they revenge flag users' legitimate songs (yes!), but of course we moderators can see that what they're doing is a whole load of rubbish and that gets undone very quickly.
  • They fire off abusive comments on people's songs, and passive-agressive messges on people's inboxes. The relevant artists and moderators take the brunt of it, of course.

And why? Because they think they should be able to steal whatever they want just for their five minutes of fun. Of course, all the moderation on Newgrounds is done by humans like you and me -- there are no bots that automatically give revenue to the people and parties whose rights are infringed.

I'll give you an example of the kind of mail we are given on a constant, along with a response I posted, for demonstrative purposes.



GD user whose name I will not disclose:

Hello! I would like to talk to you about other people's songs in ng. You say that we put other people's songs, and it's not a dump ng for songs that you want to see updates to Geometry Dash. But if not, our team and the GD robtop your website you would not have become popular ever! Your site no one knows except us! The same rukkus xtrullor and express our gratitude. I ask you to unlock and everyone who puts other people's songs. Waiting for your reply!



One: our site knows TheWeebl, James Lee, Egoraptor, the late Eddsworld, Chluaid, Waterflame, Xtrullor and F-777. We knew Alien Hominid, SexualLobster, Castle Crashers and Meat Boy, a good few of which have become actual MASS-SELLING CONSOLE TITLES. PS4 and Xbox 360. I go to Game and CEX and I still see the hard copies and gift vouchers for Newgrounds creations.

So don't be so fucking pretentious as to think that just because your precious little game has exploded in popularity that NG was never big. I got news for you buddy, NG was achieving big looooong before you guys showed up.

Two: Talking about Waterflame, Ruckus, Xtrullor. Let me give you a scenario.

You make music that you put hours into. Someone approaches you saying "let me put this in my game." You get the fans -- but not the money. RobTop doesn't fucking care about musicians like us. While the ad revenue is all going into HIS pocket, us musicians are getting absolutely ZERO.

Oh and, fans aren't gonna pay the bills. UNLESS they give the musicians their fair share of remuneration (hint: which they WON'T).

I might add that an ever increasing number of musicians here, including Waterflame and Envy, have now taken to performing rights societies in their respective countries to insulate themselves from people like you who think they can use their music for free without consequence, after all the hard work.

I am NOT going to unlock anyone's songs for Geometry Dash if they are not going to comply with NG rules. That is to say, if they didn't make it themselves, it does NOT BELONG HERE. End of story. And if you think RobTop is behind you on this one, you can go tell him to fucking stuff it.



A few months back, I remember saying in my newsposts that I was determined to start a petition calling for the removal of Geometry Dash from the Play Store and its Apple equivalent.



EDIT: While I am appreciative of all of you who supported me and others who are frustrated by this, I have an important update. @BrentHeMan in his comments has said that he is working on a solution with RobTop with regards to the mechanics of GD's audio share. I doubt anyone is ready to disclose what it is at the moment, and I understand. I just wish it was all disclosed earlier, and that our frustrations didn't have to explode -- because it's one thing going to the upper echelons, it's another thing when the rest of us are dealing with seemingly futile damage control.

I am going to mull over it, over the night, and probably table some recommendations tomorrow. If we reach an amicable solution (which I sincerely hope we do!), I will gladly void the petition, because the threat that we saw coming to NG will have been averted.


EDIT: Comments have told me that the game has effectively been removed from Steam, and some people are saying it's also been removed from the Play Store. I'm glad the petition has sent shockwaves pretty much everywhere, because it took this for not only the GD people to get pissy, but also for the NG staff to actually say SOMETHING with regards to where we are at with GD hotfixes.

Yes, you heard that right, hotfixes. It took something as extreme as a petition, which has been in the pipeline for six months, for things to finally get a fucking move on.

So calm yourselves down, the game is coming back eventually. As for when, it's anyone's guess. Us regulars and mods who deal with the strain day in, day out, consider this a victory of sorts. To be honest, I'm quite pleased. I don't miss it. But if it comes back, then I sincerely hope that it comes back in a way that actually gives respect to the users over here. Don't just think about RobTop and yourselves. Think about us lot too. Screwing people out of ad revenue and $ share which is rightfully theirs would not be allowed on Newgrounds, so it shouldn't be fine on GD either.

Oh and, the vitriol in the comments and on Twitter are proof enough as to just how toxic the GD community really is, it's proof enough for yourselves. And yes, sometimes I am pissed off enough to give off a few uncharitable responses too. At this point, I am sorry ONLY FOR THE UNCHARITABLE RESPONSES. I am not sorry for this petition. I have no regrets.

For all the comments related to my mother, my supposed voluntary lack of virginity or whatevs, there is always gonna be that one user in ten who has a modicum of common sense, even though they disagree. Keep being awesome.


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2017-01-25 05:34:36

I was about to sign this, but I'm not really comfortable with having to enter my address :/

Troisnyx responds:

Wait, they ask for your ADDRESS?!
I honestly did not have that happen to me D: Unless it means location, in which case I can see why.


2017-01-25 05:37:03

Yeah, can't get away with only putting in "United Kingdom", it won't submit unless I also enter a street address and post code.

Troisnyx responds:

Hm. Not the postcode only? I'm going to see if I can't edit the settings on that petition perchance.


2017-01-25 05:41:15

Would be cool - in any case, postcode only would still give my location with street-level precision, as a post code covers just one road here generally.

Troisnyx responds:

Sowwies. I tried :(


2017-01-25 05:43:38

These shit suckers can go waste their lives stealing shit or being retarded in general somewhere else, Newgrounds would be 900 times better without them.

Troisnyx responds:



2017-01-25 05:43:39

@Mich It seems that it's location-based, but I've changed the location of interest to the US rather than the UK. It still does seem like Change.org's policy to ask for addresses and postcodes though.


2017-01-25 05:50:09

I've skimmed the privacy policy and it looks like the only parties change.org may potentially share the full address details with is the recipients of the petition, in this case Google and Apple. They already have my address anyway, so I went ahead and signed it as well.

Troisnyx responds:

Glad you did that, phew. Cheers. I know how disconcerting it is for others to have your address etc.


2017-01-25 07:16:26


It's sad to see a decent idea like GD devolve into something so hideous.

Troisnyx responds:

What makes it worse is that the creator of that game seems to be doing absolutely nothing to quell the brattiness of its players. When a fandom goes rotten......


2017-01-25 07:34:53

Just being curious, is it a choice to not include Steam into the recipients, or did you just forget it ?

(Updated ) Troisnyx responds:

I did forget it. I will include it as soon as I return home.

EDIT: Steam somehow isn't in Change.org's database. However, @RealFaction did mention to flag the hell out of Geometry Dash on Steam and provide the reasons why. I flagged it, and I intend for the word to be spread around.


2017-01-25 08:17:20

Signed. This is way overdue.


2017-01-25 08:17:52

Hey, can I repost this later?

Troisnyx responds:

Oh absolutely!


2017-01-25 08:29:31

Also, @LuckyLightTitan, @Luwano and @JustAPunnyGuy please sign this petition.


2017-01-25 08:30:13

Sent ;)

Troisnyx responds:



2017-01-25 08:34:59

Already did. :)


2017-01-25 08:36:21

Also @Cank your name is James? you sound more like a Jack to me.
Just kidding, nice name :)


2017-01-25 08:39:14

wow, shit is deep.
well, in this case, i probably cannot help but SIGN THOSE SHITHEADS OUT OF IT.
good luck my friends :)

Troisnyx responds:

Thank you. And your English has become a lot better since!


2017-01-25 08:44:25

On behalf of everyone who signed this, thanks for your contribution :)


2017-01-25 08:46:18

Signed <3

Troisnyx responds:

Thank you~


2017-01-25 08:46:33

@LuckyLightTitan yes, my name is James. Don't wear it out. Or I'll kill you. lol jk


2017-01-25 08:47:54

@cank @bluealpha14 @Jackho @Deftones665 @Exedor @LexaHergon @TigerMvintage You might want to see this. If I'm right, please share it with anyone you know who would be similarly interested.

Petition signed. I would also settle for GD being rolled back not to include custom songs, but I AM SO PISSED RobTop is making money off of not only his userbase's content creation but also THEFT. You see how he's been hesitant updating the app.

Petition signed so fucking hard and shared on facebook and Twitter. That's a total of 2000 eyes that should in theory be able to see it. I may even go and re-share it on my artist page on FB. It needs some bumping anyway.


2017-01-25 08:49:37

Btw, thanks for including all the points I mentioned on that newspost earlier. You collected all these thoughts in a more coherent way than I could have dreamed. Thank you!

Troisnyx responds:

Anytime. I don't feel eloquent and I've found it much harder to express myself of late, but we have had three years of validation of these problems so it makes it much, much easier.

A big part of me wishes I could say the same about expressing my own issues, but that will be another story for later.


2017-01-25 08:50:01

Petition signed.

I'm glad something's finally being done about this.

Troisnyx responds:

After hearing what you went through, I'm kinda not surprised and in fact, it was in response to the open letter to you that I made this petition. I hope more people see it and the threshold gets raised HIGHER AND HIGHER.


2017-01-25 08:50:16

Hopefully this will send a message to others who think NG can be pushed around all willy nilly.


2017-01-25 08:51:11

@EDM364 thank you! Yes, share the shit out of this!


2017-01-25 09:03:07

As a casual geometry dash player, I have to say that I disagree that it should be removed from the appstore. I do, however, agree with what you were saying about the "community" in the game. There are a lot of idiots out there, mostly comprised of whiny little kids and spammers. They do unfortunately leak out into the outside world. That being said, getting the game removed doesn't seem wise. First of all, it wouldn't solve anything because the people who play the game already have it installed. Secondly, I don't feel AT ALL comfortable with getting a game removed because of the people who play it. It would be like banning Minecraft because of the squeaker. The third and final reason I disagree with this petition is because Geometry dash actually has had some productive results. For instance, many players have decided to turn to making music because they were inspired by the game. These include Etzer and Zyzyx to name a few. Even I decided to try making music too! Plus, the game has actually promoted quite a few unknown artists, not just Rukkus, Waterflame, Xtrullor, and TFT. Azazal, AcidNotation, and that guy who made Lunar Abyss have all become a lot more popular recently, which I believe is helpful to them because they have broader support. So, yeah. That's my little commentary.

Troisnyx responds:

Fame generated from a game does not justify audio theft, or generally being an arsehole. Prior to this we had sparing audio thefts and not nearly as much drama, but for it to persist for THREE YEARS?

Xtrullor and Waterflame, for example, may have been promoted, but quite frankly, they're sick of this shit. Who wouldn't be? If you made a song with your own hard work and you weren't paid a fucking penny while some big fat cat who made a game and featured your music in it gets to profit COMPLETELY off it, how would YOU feel?! There is great discontent because of this entitled group of people, which unfortunately have defined GD.

We know there are sane players, yourself included. It's one thing when the sane players can keep the entitled ones in a sort of check and balance. But can you? Ask yourself honestly.


2017-01-25 09:05:36

@LuckyLightTitan thanks friend :))
BTW @Troisnyx will you mind if i copy these text and post on my page here?
i'll save a link to your original post.

Troisnyx responds:

Heavens no, I don't mind at all! Feel free to do that, and in fact, if this becomes a copypasta, so much the better.


2017-01-25 09:14:59

I won't support the removal of gd, but I do think that something needs to change.
Also yeah a good amount of gd users are cunts, but don't generalize them. I will not sign this petition, sorry.

Perhaps try to negotiate? Have gd update it's terms to be 100% clear on the rules. Also, some form of compensation for the musicians? I would like a better search system as well (search by artist pls lol)

Troisnyx responds:

We actually did try, by contacting @Zhenmuron (RobTop) multiple times across his platforms, asking what would happen with the 2.0 release. Nothing. No news. No terms for the musicians. He has been silent throughout. We even asked members of the forums for GD to try and get in touch with him on those matters. Nothing their either.

Quite frankly, it's been long enough.


2017-01-25 09:31:26

So, it's a game that can easily allow theft of music to occur, and only Newgrounds can get in trouble? Not the creator, nor Apple or Google for allowing it to continue on their stores?

Troisnyx responds:

Neither of them have had action taken against them, and apart from RobTop, all the others have content ID bots and deep pockets. Not Newgrounds. We are the first to be sued if someone gets into trouble with the RIAA.


2017-01-25 09:40:47

why does it ask for the address of my home???


2017-01-25 10:07:25

@FirepowerX I totally agree with you. I'm surprised @TomFulp didn't tell RobTop to fuck off when the song theft started. I think it was clear then that the game was not going to help NG artists. The stealing of songs like this could be a great way for a copyright bully to start a lawsuit and end with the audio portal being shut down.


2017-01-25 10:20:07

I don't think GD should be removed from the app store... In a worst case scenario, NG could block access to the songs - I'm still holding onto hope that updates to in-game notices and disclaimers will help shift how the community behaves. A lot of it may be language barriers as well - I get the feeling English is a second language to a lot of the song thieves. It gets tempting to make some countries pay for supporter status before they can upload, since they mostly bring grief.


2017-01-25 10:20:39

I've signed it, it proves I support this and that I hate fakers


2017-01-25 10:28:07

@TomFulp how would you work that out? With paying for supporter status? That might be seen as discrimination of some kind... But maybe I misunderstood what you said.
As for blocking access... It would still be a matter of time before the theft stopped, as it will take the users a while to recognize what the hell just happened. That might be the best option, but I don't call the shots here.
As for the second language, maybe you and the staff could get help translating the disclaimers on the upload screen. It still won't stop the theft, as a lot of the users feel entitled to upload the work of others.


2017-01-25 10:32:48

I would rather see Geometry Dash removed completely than to have Newgrounds face an unprecedented wall of litigation. While the real problem is user abuse, the game allows for unrestricted access and all but promotes illegal behavior in order to gain access to tracks that are otherwise unusable. Obviously, not every single GD user out there is illegally stealing music, but it has certainly become the rule rather than the exception, and it needs to end.

Hey, if Newgrounds goes under due to lawsuits from the music industry, that's the end of Geometry Dash once and for all. At this point the game itself could be removed, restructured in a way that disallows theft, repackaged and brought back to light.


2017-01-25 10:44:56

I never played the game. I lack a mobile device that can, and I certainly have no interest in paying 3.99 on Steam for something I'm going to hate anyhow. Still, I was wondering whether or not Mr. Fulp could simply refuse to allow GD to use songs from the site. That, and having nothing particularly interesting to comment on Change.org are the only reasons I haven't signed it yet. I'd rather have all the information before posting something on a matter I know little to nothing about with capital letters and cuss words. Ultimately, however, if it's going to be simple to continue stealing music, regardless of having Mr. Fulp's and the artists' permissions, then, yeah, it's a no-brainer that the game needs to be removed from all three (if not more) platforms.

Troisnyx responds:

@RealFaction has exhorted us to flag the game on Steam. Please do so -- I just did!

Change.org does not have Steam registered on its database as a recipient so I'm not quite sure how to address that, but we at least have a flagging mechanism.


2017-01-25 11:00:32

Signing this. However, I say this, if in 2 weeks to a month things don't clear up from a much needed update to GD, then yes, please let it be taken down. It's too much work for the mods because kids can't follow rules, and is scaring people away probably. It's filling our community with toxic uneducated users from GD. We don't need it. Down with GD.


2017-01-25 11:06:23

@larrynachos, I used to be more indifferent toward the game and tell myself that it wasn't RobTop's fault users were going off the rails, but like Troisnyx has said, he's not been forthcoming at all, hardly ever updates, and is also making money off of every little thing GD players do on the game, as well as every single artist whose music is taken advantage of. None of this money ever sees the artists' hands, and it doesn't look like anything will change. RobTop is known for his sluggish updates and abandoned projects.

I would settle for a rollback before custom songs were made available or a very clearcut disclaimer and statement to these idiots in both versions of the app that they are to use the music already on NG, not submit songs they didn't create, songs that are already here, or songs that were deleted or they couldn't download. None of this has been explained and it's inviting a bunch of unwanted morons in for tea, whereby they flip the tray, cuss out your girlfriend, then start switching personalities like something out of The Exorcist and take a massive steaming shit on the carpet. But apparently it's your fault for not thinking that's cool. That's what this is like.

@AlienAlan Change.org does this to ascertain location, but it doesn't appear to go anywhere but the recipients of the petition (Google, Apple) according to what @Mich read. Correct me if I'm wrong. If you have a gmail or apple store login, chances are you've already given them your address anyway.

@TomFulp, how could we block downloads specifically for GD? From my understanding the phone has to have a local copy of the mp3 -- not that some special server is an intermediary. If we had to disable downloads, that'll hamper a lot of users who exclusively use NG to share their content with fans. Although it would net more traffic and playlist usage much like music on YT does, I'd have to start using something like instaud.io to give my fans a DL link. This runs us back to the issue of Rob hardly ever updating, since users would still be stealing shit, thinking the game had custom songs, after we'd disabled all their downloads. Maybe a big, unmissable banner with that GD graphic "Until Geometry Dash is updated to no longer use custom songs from our Portal, downloads are disabled. The theft, harassment, abuse, and entitlement inherent in the GD community is unacceptable, leading many of our artists to take this step for themselves", and so on.

Honestly though, do we really think these banners are going to do any good? If anything, after we put up our own banner, the thefts increased, thieves got more defiant, not to mention sneaky... I feel like we're beating a dead horse and the whole concept of Geometry Dash and how the custom music has been treated for so long (thefts started the moment Rob announced custom songs) fosters the idea that songs are consumables, commodities, toys -- not art. Kids want to get YT famous making a level to @Xtrullor or Skrillex, or whoever else is in fashion to like and screencap levels to. GD has never been about supporting artists. It's been about USING them, and the more I see, the more I'm convinced we'd all be better off if it never existed.

If requiring users to become supporters to be able to get scouted would solve the problem, though, I'm at the point I'd be happy with any kind of progress -- just to see something done.


2017-01-25 11:16:44

Given how slow the latest GD updates are coming (and each update takes far longer than the last to come out from what I have noticed), I doubt updates will help at all. :(

If anything, I would be entirely down for RobTop making an update to remove the custom song feature with a well written statement on why users are no longer allowed to use custom songs from Newgrounds. As I stated on @1f1n1ty's news post, RobTop's original intention was that users would explore the portal and discover new and cool artists they like but... it went the total opposite direction of what he intended.


2017-01-25 11:42:22

Honestly, even if we were to require people to become supporters before they can be scouted, the issue is lies in the unscouted realm, which of has to be cleaned out the most. Sooner or later, we are going to be hit with a DMCA, and, even if the app is removed from the stores, it will simply bottleneck the problem, won't solve it. If anything, even if we are hit due to the sheer volume of the issue (anyone got any statistics they want to share as to the unscouted people since 2013 of how many songs had to be taken down (excluding removal by uploader) vs. how many people got scouted?), and, with each attempt becoming more sneakier (and including impersonation), there's only so much time before something hits us. And, in all fairness, could the GD creator get hit with it faster than us if we can provide those types of statistics?

Troisnyx responds:

Trouble is, for something like this to even work, a court action NEEDS to be brought against him. Threatening legal action will not work, because he's fucking obstinate. The only way he can be hit with it is if someone spends the money, brings him to court, and if he does not respond, for the judge to rule by default against RobTop (in a sort of class action case).

But because the songs are being hosted on Newgrounds, the record companies will go for US first, not RobTop. RobTop is the one pulling the strings behind Geometry Dash, but his role is only minimal on this site. Everyone will see what's on the surface, and us hosting these songs (which us mods are painstakingly trying to take down quickly) will be taken for, you know, being complicit in the whole copyright infringement thing.


2017-01-25 12:11:39

Musicians should sue robtop for top robbery

Troisnyx responds:

Does that make us top-LESS? Har har!


2017-01-25 12:40:34



2017-01-25 12:58:42


Signed it ! mdr^^


2017-01-25 15:08:39

PS: Tell more people to report the game hitting the flag button for "legal violation" and giving reasons why, linking to the petition and potential evidence of why it should be taken down. http://store.steampowered.com/app/322170/

Troisnyx responds:

Thanks. I would be grateful if you spread the word on this. Now that I am editing the petition to include Steam AND responding to at least some of the comments, things should come to a bit more of a head.


2017-01-25 15:32:41

You're welcome and I will. I'll make a post about it myself soon, I'm currently reviewing/judging Pixel Day entries with Tom to see who wins the contest. :P Also, grab a screenshot of the page to direct them to that flag button on the right on the page, and then when the box pops up, there's a little place that says "if you're a copyright holder filing a complaint click *here*" or something at the bottom of the box in small text, highlight that area in a picture to notify musicians they need to file complaints for stolen music too, linking back to the songs of theirs people have used in game.

You the mods know, so linking to original stolen content if you remember any of the songs, from the original artist (link of the original song), would help greatly. Mine was Neon Highway, many have stolen and used that song in game. Best way for musicians to find out is for musicians to check out their most popular songs with thousands of views, and download the game to search for the songs in game. I'm gonna help fight this nonsense, it should have already been handled.

Troisnyx responds:

@EDM364 @NekoMika @Mich @Step Let's make note of this as well, as far as we can. I only remember some of the impostors from memory but I'm starting to think we need a timeline of events that have happened since the game was released.

I've flagged the Steam game, not as a copyright holder, but as an NG mod flagging general copyright violations. AFAIK none of my songs were used in Geometry Dash, which kinda helps because well, my stuff isn't really of the genre to feature in there. Nonetheless... we remember people who have. Do you remember any other examples of songs that were used (excluding Waterflame and Xtrullor of course)?


2017-01-25 15:34:30

While I don't think it'll get removed from any of these stores, I signed to show some support for this issue. I really love the Audio Portal and it would be a shame if Tom has to shut it down because of GD users. Robtop needs to do something about his game's community.

Troisnyx responds:

Well, flagging, petitioning and speaking out are some of the ways. I'm not sure how well the flagging system works on the Play Store but we can definitely do so for Steam, actually.

Speaking of which, @RealFaction have you had any experience flagging things on the Play Store?


2017-01-25 15:50:20

Shit is it on Google Play too? I've never had experience flagging it on that platform...hmm. I can look into it after I finish reviewing submissions for Pixel Day.

Troisnyx responds:

Of course; the thing has been available for Android and not just iOS. @IrishChieftain (Seán) did download it out of curiosity one day but agrees that the game is cancerous for the attitudes it seems to have supported, and he's signed the thing too. I've a good mind to ask if he can access the Play Store and Steam and flag it too, when he gets the chance.


2017-01-25 15:52:07

Well, might as well sign this. I've been getting tired of this. I may not be a victim of this, but I've heard the stories.

Troisnyx responds:

Thanks for your support! If you can, flag the app on Steam, and the Play Store / iTunes too; it'd be much appreciated. I'mma do the same.


2017-01-25 15:57:32

@cank And DAAAAMMMNN it feels good to be listed in the same repost list as Waterflame


2017-01-25 16:18:08

Hey. I am a creator in the Newgrounds Audio Portal. I am not one of those popular creators but I know what you're thinking. Instead of just sign a petition to obliterate Geometry Dash itself, how about we sign a petition for RobTop Games to remove the feature of having songs on Newgrounds used in the game. I don't want a good game like this to just go to waste.


Troisnyx responds:

The idea is for someone to actually *respond* to the petition. The only problem with this is that RobTop has been unresponsive, literally, for the LAST THREE YEARS.